Solar and Lithium Install

Map of this blog's locations click this link to open the map

This post will detail the solar panel and lithium battery upgrade we had done in late April while in Nappanee Indiana. Here's a sneak peek of the roof of our motorhome now that the solar panels are installed. One from the front of the rig and the other from the rear.

View of Rooftop Solar Panels from Front of Rig

And View from the Rear

The drive from Oakwood Illinois to Nappanee Indiana was over our normal 200 mile limit but only by 30 miles or so. There might have been some shorter routes but we knew that coming across I-74 and north on US-31 out of Indianapolis would be a rather straightforward drive. It was a rainy day but not pouring rain so it wasn’t too bad. The last stretch across US-6 into Nappanee was under construction for a paving project and had some pretty narrow lanes that weren’t quite wide enough for our rig so I got to drive straddling the shoulder for several miles. We pulled into the Solar Energy Systems (SES) parking lot and spotted the newly built RV sites on the west side of the lot. There were 3 other rigs already in spots but there was an open site for us. The power was working but the water and sewer connections were still in progress. Once they have these sites are  complete, they will have a very nice setup for RV customers like us. As it is, this will work just fine for the few days we expect to be staying here.

So why are we here at SES in Indiana? Well, we need to get replacement house batteries for our Dutch Star. We have had the same eight flooded lead acid (FLA) 6 volt  batteries since we purchased the rig back in 2015. Based on the look of these batteries when we purchased the 3 year old rig, I suspect these are the original factory installed batteries. That would make them about 11 years old! Normally, this type of battery would have a life expectancy of 5 to 6 years if you're lucky, so we have definitely gotten a long life out of them. 

We have been thinking about making the upgrade to our battery bank for quite some time. Back in the fall of 2019, we had stopped at a well regarded RV solar and lithium installation company in Oregon (AM Solar). They had provided a quote to just upgrade from our current batteries to lithium but it was $13,000! That had seemed rather excessive to us and we had sort of put the upgrade thoughts on hold. From time to time, we would research installers or talk to others that had a similar upgrade on their rig but we never came upon the right business that we felt we could trust to do this upgrade for us.

In January of this year, we had spoken with a fellow Newmar owner about the solar and lithium install that had done within the last year and even got to check it out up close. It was impressive and coincidentally, the installer they used was going to give a talk at the rally we were attending in Quartzsite Arizona. After seeing the work SES does and hearing the owner of the company talk about solar and lithium upgrades, we knew we had stumbled upon the company we could trust and we worked out a system that would meet our needs and scheduled an appointment for late April here in Nappanee Indiana. 

A little background information might help understand how our RV is configured. Our 8 house batteries power all of our 12 volt lights, exhaust fans and a handful of other items in the rig. These 12 volt loads are rather inconsequential in the overall scheme of things. But our rig is an all electric rig - no propane on board (except a small tank for our grill). Lots of RVs will have propane cooktops, ovens, furnace and refrigerators that can run off propane. By having the appliances configured to use propane, these rigs can often be used in setting without access to shore power fairly easily. But our motorhome has a standard residential refrigerator, electric cooktop (not induction) and a convection/microwave oven that all require 120 volt power to operate. Our house batteries feed an inverter that produces normal 120 volt AC electricity from the charge stored in the batteries. When we aren’t connected to shore power, this 2800 watt inverter will keep the refrigerator running and also provide power to all of our standard wall outlets - think television, laptop charger, weather radio, or the clock on the microwave etc.

Our current setup worked well for all of the low power draw items, even the refrigerator. But if we tried to run the toaster or electric tea kettle or microwave, it would start to run but after a few seconds the high current draw from the FLA batteries would cause the voltage to drop precipitously and our inverter would shut down. We had come to accept and adapt to these limitations and have successfully lived for nearly 7 years in our rig even when we were not connected to shore power.

If we were “off grid” for days or weeks, we found we would simply run our built in diesel generator that is part of many motorhomes like ours. When running the generator, we would be charging the house batteries as well as being able to run the cooktop or oven. We had found that by running the generator twice a day for about 2 to 2.5 hours each time, we would have adequate charge to keep the refrigerator going during the rest of the day or overnight. If we ran it during the morning and evening, we could tie in to the breakfast or dinner meal prep and use the kitchen appliances. Depending on the cost of fuel and how much electrical load we needed, it would cost us somewhere in the $3 to $9 per day range in diesel to run the generator. 

This had worked fairly well but we were looking for more flexibility in our electrical system that would make living in the rig more convenient. First off, we are not air conditioning people. I doubt we have run the air conditioners more than a couple of times each year. So our system did not to be so large to be able to run an air conditioner from the batteries and inverter. It can be done but would add to the cost of a solar/lithium install. Our electric cooktop was one kitchen item that was not wired off our original inverter but we did want to have the new system be able to handle this. We recognize that we won’t be able to run it and the microwave simultaneously just off the inverter but we can handle to load management aspects of adding another appliance to the inverter.

If we had simply replaced our old flooded lead acid (FLA) batteries with new ones or upgraded to absorbed glass mat (AGM), we may have been able to run some of the higher load appliances for a brief time but we were in search of better performance. Lithium batteries have been becoming more and more popular in RV applications. They out perform the other battery types in nearly all measures but they are also rather expensive. 

We had come to the conclusion that the cost and benefits of a lithium battery upgrade would be worth it for us. We went into this process knowing that the cost to install our system would far outweigh any savings we might get. Besides swapping over the house batteries from FLA to lithium, we were going to have solar panels installed on the roof that would allow us to recharge the batteries without the need for shore power or running the generator. We were also going to have a new Victron inverter installed that would bump us up to 3000 watts and have lots of cool features I will talk about more in a little bit.

So our system would include six 100 amp hour lithium batteries, eight 200 watt solar panels, the new inverter, solar charge controller and lots of other miscellaneous components to get it all to work. The install was going to take 2 to 3 days but we would be able to get the rig back late each afternoon so we had a place to stay. The estimated cost was around $17,000.

We had arrived on the Sunday evening and the following morning, Brian, the RV install manager came out to greet us and get things going. Since this was the first time they had looked at our rig and the first time we could go over some of the specifics, we talked about some of the options we might want to add as well as some of the installation details. As to be expected, there was some feature creep and we tacked on a few upgrades not in the original estimate. When it was all finalized, our bill would come in at $17,700. Not cheap but we feel it will be a much improved system and offer us lots better flexibility in our future camping options. The one thing that will make this bill easier to swallow is that there is a federal tax credit for doing solar installations. The current program from the federal government allows for a 30% tax credit for qualifying solar system upgrades. The surprising thing about the program is that this credit is applied to the full system including installation costs instead of simply the solar panels. This will drop our eventual system price to about $12,400 - still not cheap but much improved.

SES has a small waiting room that worked to give us a comfortable place to sit while the crew was working on our rig. At lunchtime we headed into Nappanee to check out some sights and get something to eat. Coppes Commons is an interesting place. Back in the late 1800's this was location of a large woodworking manufacturer - the Coppes Brothers Box Factory and Mill. As the products changed and the factory evolved, the building kept getting bigger. The 1920's was likely the high point of the factory. It was during this time that the "Hoosier Cabinet" productions took off. Today the building has been converted into an eclectic mix of businesses selling all sorts of products. We had lunch at the Culinary Mill Market and Deli. Great food and lots of interesting grocery products. Upstairs is a museum of some of the many different designs of Hoosier Cabinets. We really enjoyed exploring this old factory. I think checking out the actual building was more interesting than all the various shops that now occupy the space. 

Hoosier Cabinet Museum

Nice Oak Cabinet with Stained Glass

Unique Clock!

We also headed to the Newmar facility in town. They have a gorgeous new service facility that has a rather extensive parts inventory. Many of the more common items are actually on shelves in the store so we can simply wander up and down the aisles and see things that we forgot we could use. Some items we need to have the parts department check on and grab from the back parts warehouse. We had stopped here back in 2021 when we were having new furniture installed nearby, but we still seemed to find all sorts of items we could use.

Since we needed to be able to stay in the rig after each day of the install, they divided the tasks up into pieces that would give us a useable rig each evening. The first day they removed all our FLA batteries and the slide out tray they were mounted in. Then they enclosed the battery bay with plywood covered in white laminate and installed our 6 new lithium batteries. The 8 solar panels got installed on the roof and prepared to be wired into the system. That first night the rig wasn't all that different in operation since none of the new features were in place yet. Here are some pictures of the battery compartment before and after. I only had taken a close up picture of our old batteries so I needed to find a picture online that shows what the 8 FLA batteries on the tray looked like.

Our Original Eight House Batteries

Picture Showing Batteries on Pull Out Tray

Old Batteries Out, New In

The next day, I pulled the rig back into one of the 3 large installation bays SES has to do work. They have a rather impressive amount of inventory so there was really no issue with them having the required parts on hand. That second day, we headed out to do some geocaching and found another place for lunch - Hunters Hideaway. Near the end of the day, Brian came out to let us know we we almost done but the remaining tasks were some minor cosmetic items that could be finished the following morning. He was going to have Rana explain the operation of the system and allow us to ask some of our questions. She was fairly new to this job at SES and we had lots of questions that stumped her but we got a good overview of the operations of the components and how to work them. That evening, we played around with the touchscreen display that allows us to control all aspects of the inverter and solar. Since it was near sunset, there wasn't much solar to be had but we could still test how the inverter would handle our kitchen appliances as we prepared dinner.

Lithium Batteries and Inverter

Neatly Installed Inverter and Solar Charge Controller

The next morning, they finished up the few remaining tasks and we managed to get a few of the other members of the tech team to answer some of the follow up questions we had. We were told we could spend the rest of the day and overnight to do more testing and go in to ask questions if we need some more instructions or explanation. I won't say that this is a complicated system but it does have a bit of a learning curve. We are definitely pleased with the quality of the install, and pretty happy with training we received. I guess only time will tell how well this new solar/lithium setup works out for us.

STATUS UPDATE AFTER 7 WEEKS

The advantage of being behind on my writing of blog posts is that I have the ability to see the future or at least write about the future. We had eight nights of travelling from Nappanee Indiana to our destination for the summer season in western New York. When we are actually driving the motorhome, we are charging our house batteries. We do have a special controller in line with the alternator on the motorhome to prevent the house batteries from pulling too much current while travelling. We have heard that it is possible that the lithium batteries can try to draw so much power from the alternator that it is possible to burn it out. While we are moving, we are also charging the system from solar gains. Depending on how long a drive we have and how sunny the skies are, we will most likely pull into our evening destination with the batteries fully charged.

For the eight night journey,  we stayed at places without any access to power for three nights. We had no issue making dinner or just living in the rig as if we did have shore power. The other five nights were at an Elks Lodge where we did have access power but only 15 amp outlet. We initially plugged into the shore power but decided that if we left the rig unplugged, we would be able to get better information about how the system was functioning. The first day was a rather sunny one and we had no trouble getting back up to 100% state of charge. We then had a couple of cloudy days in a row where the solar gains were modest. Since we were still learning about our system, we would sometimes go plug the rig into the 15 amp outlet when we were preparing dinner. With a 3000 watt inverter, we can provide about 25 amps of AC power which covers any of our appliances but only one at a time. 

A nice feature of this new inverter is that it will "assist" the shore power by utilizing the stored battery power and generating more power. For instance, if dinner is eggplant parm, we will need to run the convection oven to heat the eggplant, but we will also need to use the stovetop to boil water for the noodles. If we don't have shore power, we will need to cook in stages. Cook the eggplant and leave it in the oven once it is done. Then turn on the stovetop to heat the water. This is an acceptable scenario but not ideal. In the case where we had access to 15 amp shore power, we could run both the oven and stovetop at the same time. The inverter is smart enough to use the combination of shore power and add in the extra power needed by drawing it from the batteries.

When we arrived in Waterloo NY for the next 5.5 months, we have access to 50 amp shore power. This allows us to run just about everything in the rig at once if needed. That is nice because we don't need to put any thought into what appliances we run. We can just do it all. The problem with this is that we will be sitting for months on end without getting any insight as to how well the solar panels will work under various sunlight conditions. Our spot there has no trees near the rig but does have a line of trees a few hundred feet to the east and west of us. We will be in a really good position to collect solar energy once the sun comes up over the tree tops until it sets behind the other trees. The battery charger that is part of the inverter will keep our new lithium batteries fully charged all the time. We do find that if we are using an appliance to heat up lunch, the system will utilize as much solar as possible and limit the draw from shore power, but that is about as much energy our new and expensive system will provide. Typically the sun isn't very high in the sky for the times we need to heat up breakfast or dinner so there won't be any solar gains for those meals. We could go turn off the breaker for our shore power to force the solar and batteries do do their thing, but that would be effort and in doing so, any of the things that do not run off the inverter will be without power. This would include our washer and dryer, the electric elements for our water heater as well as our air conditioners. Not that reducing our shore power usage will matter too much here since this campground does not meter our electricity but I was hoping to get a better sense of how well the system works before we truly put it to the test later this year.

In playing around with our system, I stumbled on to the fact that I can easily go into one of the menus on the touchscreen and turn off the battery charger portion of the inverter while leaving the inverter itself still working. The upshot of this is that we can run a load of laundry or have hot water for showers while having the items powered by the inverter utilize only our solar charged batteries. This provides us with lots of information and different scenarios of cloud cover, rain, etc to get a good idea of how our solar panels will work. But if we need to use multiple kitchen appliances for dinner, all we need to do is change a setting in the touchscreen that controls everything. It seems to be the best of both worlds.

We have determined a few things by using this "pseudo boondocking" mode. Even on a cloudy day, we get adequate solar gains during the day to keep the battery levels constant or rising slightly during the daylight hours. We will drop down when we prepare dinner and the next morning's breakfast so we would only be able to handle 2 consecutive cloudy days before needing to run the generator if we were truly boondocking without access to shore power. We also left the rig unoccupied for 3 nights to attend an event out of town. So we had some data of how much power is used if it just sits idle. It appears that we used about 1.2% of our battery capacity each hour on average. This is presumably the result of our residential refrigerator and a few of the other small loads that stay on all the time.

One of the other nice features of the Victron inverter and its peripherals is that I can remotely log into our system and check the status of things and even make changes to the setup as if I were standing in the rig at the touchscreen panel. All this data is also stored in a central server and the technical staff at SES can have the ability to log in to check something out if I am having problems. All this data is also able to be downloaded from the server into a file that I can then manipulate and analyze. It does produces a boat load of data. There are over 100 columns of data that includes voltages, currents, power as well as all sorts of flags or error fields. On top of the variety of data, it is all provided in one minute intervals! It has been some time since I have been able to let out my inner geek and go crazy with data analysis.

Below are a few plots from the first 7 weeks of using our system. The first plot shows the amount of power we collected from the solar panels. It is clear when it is daylight and when it is night. It also is obvious which days were cloudy and also the several days where we experienced the thick smoke from the Canadian wildfires around June 7. In early May, we initially had shore power connected for about a week and it is clear that there was practically no solar gain simply because the batteries were being charged from shore power. The second plot shows how full our battery bank was as a percentage. Again it is plain to see the week we had shore power turned on. Plus it is clear that on many days, the solar gains were adequate to fully charge the batteries but on several occasions the clouds or smoke did not allow us to gain much. The last plot show how much power was drawn from shore power. This plot is not continuous because have been running much of the time with the battery charger function turned off. Toward the right of the plot, you can see where I turned on the charger to make up for the smoke and cloudy days we experienced in early June.

Solar Gain in Watts

Battery Bank Level in Percent

Shore Power Usage in Watts